How often do you get catcalled?

“How often. Well, I am an old lady now, so it’s gotten better the last few years. [laughter]. I mean, every once in a while I’ll get comments on the street like, you know, during the day. I mean, I also feel like the culture has changed to some extent. When I was a girl, in my twenties and thirties living in the city there wasn’t so much awareness of how rude and harassed people felt. And so, these guys, you would walk past a construction site and it was like you were walking past a gauntlet. You just had people, you know, saying all sorts of things, and I feel like now people are still like checking you out. Saying “hi, goodmorning”. What I get a lot is, “good morning” in a slightly shady way. You kind of always feel weird about it, you know. You’re kind of like “ew.” 

What’s your scariest catcalling experience?

“Well once, I was walking up Broadway, and I must have been like twenty five. And I was just, you know, doing my brisk New Yorker walk, and this guy was just like walking quickly towards me. And I was walking fast too, and I was about to swerve to not bump into him, and he just came straight up to me and kissed me. He kissed me, and kind of smiled, and then kept walking. And I lost it. I started sobbing hysterically, because I felt so- it was such a violation. I was just walking down the street for gods sake.It’s a violation. It’s violation, just-horrible. And that was my worst. But, I used to have a boyfriend and he used to say to me to put my hair into a bun, you know, with a floppy hat on top so people wouldn’t see my hair, because my hair was like, a target. And I always felt like “seriously? I have to change what I look like so I don’t have to be harassed?”

How old were you when you first got catcalled?

“I mean, I remember being about your age, (12), when sketchy older guys would say something, or sometimes they would say something and it seemed like it was innocuous, but it really wasn’t. Again, you develop an instinct for people who are saying things that seem harmless, but really are gross and inappropriate. So yeah, as young as you are.” 

How do you react to catcalling now?

“You know, I’ve always been, (and maybe I’m a coward), not wanting to engage. Even with the guy who kissed me, my response was to start crying because I didn’t know what to do. I feel like I, even though I’m pretty assertive and strong willed, I’ve always been scared to engage with people on the street. My response has always been to put my head down and walk faster and get out of there as quickly as possible. Which I think a lot of women probably do. Because, you know, if you say anything, it empowers them, it makes the situation worse.”

How do you feel when you get catcalled on the street?

“My first thought is always “ew”. [laughter]. There are these sit-com characters who get like, a thrill from these remarks. I never really had that experience, I’ve always been vaguely threatened. Like, if you feel like it’s okay to just… talk to me, or shout something out to me, you probably feel like you can do something worse. And that’s what I always felt as a very threatening thing. Most of the time, it’s just, you just can’t get away from that undertone of threatening. Like, they are saying that they can actually do you physical harm.’’

Have you seen any special reactions to catcalling?

“I had a good friend from college, I remember going to this very big black woman who was just, fearless. Completely fearless. And she just had no time for it. SO she would just stop a guy who was catcalling or saying something. And sometimes I was with her while this was happening, and I was like “oh no, here we go. She’s gonna stop and talk to them”. And she would turn around and be like: “listen white boy, I do not need this type of disrespect.” And she would just like, lay them out. And most of the time they really were abassed. I don’t know if it was because she was a tall woman and had a lot more physical courage, or it was just her personality. But , she even did that for me once when this guy was like harassing me. She said “listen just leave my friend alone” and I loved her for that. So I think there are some women who can say “no way, you’re not getting away with this”. But, unfortunately, most of us are like “lets get out of here quickly, and hope it stays behind me.” 

What do you want people to know about catcalling? What’s the message you want to send?

“Well, the message is, don’t do it. [laughter] I mean, it’s okay to say good morning to somebody when they are walking in the door or something. It’s not okay to be like “good morning” in a shady voice, or “good morning beautiful” when you don’t know that person. And, it’s not okay to treat women like their appearance is up for judgement by you or anybody else. And I think that‘s the take away. That’s it. Don’t do it. Don’t catcall. Why do you have to do that? Woman don’t sit around, going like “ooh, look at those buns” [laughter]. However, I think it has gotten better, believe it or not. I think it isn’t as bad as fifteen twenty years ago. It used to be brutal. I mean, walking down the street felt like you were getting attacked. A lot of companies, a lot of job sites, like construction, have been told that they can not be doing this. There are new workplace rules that forbid it. In that sense, I think it has gotten better. But, you know, you still get the outliers.”

Why do you think this is a question of power?“It’s about men feeling that you are an object. That you are not a person. They don’t do that to each other, so they feel like they have the right to comment on what you’re wearing, on how you look, on everything. You’ve heard people say “oh you should smile. You would be so much prettier if you smiled.” That kinda thing. That used to make me want to fire bomb the entire city, when somebody said that to me. Because, why is it my duty to smile for you, so I can look pretty for you? So yeah, it’s about power. Because, it’s about saying “I have the ability to objectify you, to sum up your appearance.” And, you know, it’s something where you’re a smart woman, a smart young lady and you’ll go to school, you’ll go to college, you’ll graduate, you’re a professor, a doctor, a lawyer, you’re somebody of worth in the world. And yet you have somebody out there who is treating you like you’re some kind of, barbie doll or something. And it really dehumanizes you.”